[Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic

-1
--
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Tim Ellison <***@gmail.com>åå°ïŒ

Please vote on the proposal to move Apache Harmony to the Apache Attic.

[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic
[ 0] Don't care
[-1] Don't move Harmony to the Attic.

The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.

Thanks,
Tim

Jesse Wilson

2011-10-29 13:36:12 UTC

enh

2011-10-29 15:37:36 UTC

Post by Tim Ellison
Please vote on the proposal to move Apache Harmony to the Apache Attic.
[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic
[ 0] Don't care
[-1] Don't move Harmony to the Attic.
The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
Thanks,
Tim

--
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NIO or JNI questions? Mail me/drop by/add me as a reviewer.

Christian Grobmeier

2011-10-29 15:53:22 UTC

+1 (non binding)
I am very sad this project will go.

--
http://www.grobmeier.de

Karl Wettin

2011-10-29 16:01:16 UTC

Post by Tim Ellison
[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic

My non binding vote. A big thank you from me to all contributors! It's very sad indeed but I think it makes most sense to move for now, hoping for someone to pick it up in the future.

karl

Danese Cooper

2011-10-29 18:34:02 UTC

+1 and thanks again to everybody who worked on Harmony. It was a great project, if only in proving that Sun was arrogant in it's belief that Java's class libraries were "impossible to clone".

Danese

Niclas Hedhman

2011-10-30 02:49:16 UTC

＋1

--
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sebb

2011-10-30 11:21:33 UTC

Post by Niclas Hedhman
＋1

The above vote used a non-ASCII character - it's not clear what it
should be unless the user has a browser with a suitable character set.

I see

FF
0B

Perhaps resend it for clarity?

Post by Niclas Hedhman

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I work here; http://tinyurl.com/6a2pl4j
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Niclas Hedhman

2011-10-30 16:20:24 UTC

Resending vote;
+1

The pinyin input got it messed up I guess...

Post by Niclas Hedhman
＋1

--
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I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/6a2pl4j
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug

sebb

2011-10-30 23:44:23 UTC

Post by Niclas Hedhman
Resending vote;
+1

That is now clear, thanks.

Post by Niclas Hedhman
The pinyin input got it messed up I guess...

I can read it OK now I am back on my normal system, but I was using a
different system which I guess does not have some fonts installed.

Post by Niclas Hedhman

Post by Niclas Hedhman
＋1

--
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http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/6a2pl4j
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug

Nathan Beyer

2011-10-31 02:19:35 UTC

Ilya Berezhnyuk

2011-10-31 10:58:34 UTC

Oliver Deakin

2011-10-31 13:44:20 UTC

Ray Chen

2011-10-31 13:53:03 UTC

+1
Thank you everyone!

--
http://about.me/clraychen
Regards,

Ray Chen

Regis Xu

2011-10-31 14:28:22 UTC

+1

It's very sad...

Post by Ray Chen
+1
Thank you everyone!

--
http://about.me/clraychen
Regards,
Ray Chen

Catherine Hope

2011-10-31 15:17:34 UTC

Post by Regis Xu
+1
It's very sad...

Post by Ray Chen
+1
Thank you everyone!

--
http://about.me/clraychen
Regards,
Ray Chen

Charles Lee

2011-11-01 01:53:04 UTC

+1

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Catherine Hope <

Post by Tim Ellison
+1

Post by Regis Xu
+1
It's very sad...

Post by Ray Chen
+1
Thank you everyone!

Post by Tim Ellison
Please vote on the proposal to move Apache Harmony to the Apache

Attic.

Post by Regis Xu

Post by Ray Chen

Post by Tim Ellison
[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic
[ 0] Don't care
[-1] Don't move Harmony to the Attic.
The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
Thanks,
Tim

--
http://about.me/clraychen
Regards,
Ray Chen

--
Yours sincerely,
Charles Lee

Jimmy,Jing Lv

2011-11-01 15:17:27 UTC

+1, sadly.

--
Best Regards!

Jimmy, Jing Lv

Mark Hindess

2011-11-01 19:47:46 UTC

+1

-Mark.

Prashanth K S

2011-11-02 12:11:20 UTC

+1.
Great to have known everyone...

--Prashanth

Post by Mark Hindess
+1
-Mark.

Alex Blewitt

2011-11-02 12:37:17 UTC

+1

Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship (commercial or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

Mikhail Markov

2011-11-02 13:54:28 UTC

+1

Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship (commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

johann Sorel

2011-11-02 15:01:34 UTC

Hello,

I'm intruding again, before moving it to the attic and while the PMC is still alive.
maybe you could consider moving the project under public domain for the benefit of other vm, student and university works ? and android by the way (even if I'm not fan of it).

Mail from last year :
http://harmony.markmail.org/message/bzifm5jshpviyyzz?q=public+domain

This will allow other project with bsd-like, mit, ...etc... licenses to reuse parts of harmony more easely. Don't let all this work go to waste.

See it as a gift to the community :) .

johann sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship
(commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
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Niclas Hedhman

2011-11-02 15:35:37 UTC

Personally, I think the Apache License is as close to public domain
you can come, since PD is not universally defined across
jurisdictions.
The "no right to trademarks" and "give us some credit" obligations
will not stop anybody from using it.

Cheers
Niclas

Post by johann Sorel
Hello,
I'm intruding again, before moving it to the attic and while the PMC is still alive.
maybe you could consider moving the project under public domain for the benefit of other vm, student and university works ? and android by the way (even if I'm not fan of it).
http://harmony.markmail.org/message/bzifm5jshpviyyzz?q=public+domain
This will allow other project with bsd-like, mit, ...etc... licenses to reuse parts of harmony more easely. Don't let all this work go to waste.
See it as a gift to the community :) .
johann sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship (commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4

Xiao-Feng Li

2011-11-03 02:57:08 UTC

With my personal support to this idea.

Thanks,
xiaofeng

Post by johann Sorel
johann sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship (commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4

--
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Melan Nimesh

2011-11-03 05:31:38 UTC

+1 for moving the project under public domain

Post by johann Sorel
http://harmony.markmail.org/message/bzifm5jshpviyyzz?q=public+domain
This will allow other project with bsd-like, mit, ...etc... licenses to
reuse parts of harmony more easely. Don't let all this work go to waste.
See it as a gift to the community :) .
johann sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship (commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4

Thanks
--Melan

Ray Chen

2011-11-03 06:48:10 UTC

Hi,
As my understanding, if anyone (inlcuding students) want to use Harmony or
contribute to Harmony.
There is no limitation with the Apache license.

Correct me, if I am wrong.

Thanks!

way

Post by johann Sorel
(even if I'm not fan of it).

+1 for moving the project under public domain

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship (commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

Post by Tim Ellison
Please vote on the proposal to move Apache Harmony to the Apache

Attic.

Post by Tim Ellison
[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic
[ 0] Don't care
[-1] Don't move Harmony to the Attic.
The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
Thanks,
Tim

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4

Thanks
--Melan

--
http://about.me/clraychen
Regards,

Ray Chen

johann Sorel

2011-11-02 16:43:44 UTC

Everyone preach for it's own license preference, it's not the place to debate on this subject.
I personally had a bad experience with opensolaris when oracle changed the license and 'stole' free developers work (I see it this way).

more than the license the ©Copyright is like a Sword of Damocles waiting in the dark. I trust the apache foundation but still we don't know what the futur will be. Until a projet is under public domain I don't consider it truly Free.

If you think the apache license is so close to public domain then it should not be a problem ?

The decision is not mine, and probably some contributor to harmony like IBM will have a word on this, or is it the PMC decision only ?

johann sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 23:35:37 +0800
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
Personally, I think the Apache License is as close to public domain
you can come, since PD is not universally defined across
jurisdictions.
The "no right to trademarks" and "give us some credit" obligations
will not stop anybody from using it.
Cheers
Niclas

Post by johann Sorel
Hello,
I'm intruding again, before moving it to the attic and while the PMC is
still alive.
maybe you could consider moving the project under public domain for the
benefit of other vm, student and university works ? and android by the
way (even if I'm not fan of it).
http://harmony.markmail.org/message/bzifm5jshpviyyzz?q=public+domain
This will allow other project with bsd-like, mit, ...etc... licenses to
reuse parts of harmony more easely. Don't let all this work go to waste.
See it as a gift to the community :) .
johann sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship
(commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

Post by Tim Ellison
Please vote on the proposal to move Apache Harmony to the Apache
Attic.
[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic
[ 0] Don't care
[-1] Don't move Harmony to the Attic.
The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
Thanks,
Tim

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4

--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/6a2pl4j
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug

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johann Sorel

2011-11-03 08:49:09 UTC

Hello,

You are right, if they want they can use it with this license but still it's a source of problems. we have plenty of different licenses out there, MIT, BSD, GPL ... and some more license we surely be created in the futur, mixing them is not always fun. All of them are not fully compatible. Legal problems are something really dirty when you encounter them, noone working on open-source projects want to have such problems.

The apache license is ~more or less~ fine today (everyone has it's own preference), but might become a problem later. To avoid those problems the change can only be done now while the PMC is still here.

Setting it in public domain can also make it revive, forks can start much more easely from it. Several JVM have ~dyed~ (or are in lawsuit like google dalvik, android) in the last year. Having a few more vm out there would be for the best, specialy if they are already reliable alternatives like harmony.

Johann Sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:48:10 +0800
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
Hi,
As my understanding, if anyone (inlcuding students) want to use Harmony
or
contribute to Harmony.
There is no limitation with the Apache license.
Correct me, if I am wrong.
Thanks!

way

Post by johann Sorel
(even if I'm not fan of it).

+1 for moving the project under public domain

Post by johann Sorel
http://harmony.markmail.org/message/bzifm5jshpviyyzz?q=public+domain
This will allow other project with bsd-like, mit, ...etc... licenses to
reuse parts of harmony more easely. Don't let all this work go to
waste.
See it as a gift to the community :) .
johann sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship
(commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

Post by Tim Ellison
Please vote on the proposal to move Apache Harmony to the Apache

Attic.

Post by Tim Ellison
[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic
[ 0] Don't care
[-1] Don't move Harmony to the Attic.
The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
Thanks,
Tim

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4

Thanks
--Melan

--
http://about.me/clraychen
Regards,
Ray Chen

____________________________________________________________
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Niclas Hedhman

2011-11-03 10:02:56 UTC

I don't get the "stole from free software developers" reference, as I
wasn't watching it...

Not sure why you think PD is more "free" than ALv2. Perhaps because PD
would allow submarining patented technology into a contribution and
then sue the users of it for patent infringement? ALv2 prohibits such
"freedom", and it is this paradox that creates one of the ALv2
incompatibility issues with GPLv2 (but not in v3 since patents are
explicitly spelled out there).
Maybe you are eager to get hold of the "Harmony" name, which Apache is
unlikely to "hand over" easily (see iBatis->MyBatis and
HiveMind->Gaderian as examples)?
What other "freedom" do you seek? Hypothetical abstractions are not
well received in the legal corners of ASF....

I think this is not a PMC issue but a Board issue (there is a policy
that all PMCs MUST use ALv2 for created code), and I doubt they will
consider your request after consulting Legal Counsel.

Cheers
Niclas

Post by johann Sorel
Hello,
You are right, if they want they can use it with this license but still it's a source of problems. we have plenty of different licenses out there, MIT, BSD, GPL ... and some more license we surely be created in the futur, mixing them is not always fun. All of them are not fully compatible. Legal problems are something really dirty when you encounter them, noone working on open-source projects want to have such problems.
The apache license is ~more or less~ fine today (everyone has it's own preference), but might become a problem later. To avoid those problems the change can only be done now while the PMC is still here.
Setting it in public domain can also make it revive, forks can start much more easely from it. Several JVM have ~dyed~ (or are in lawsuit like google dalvik, android) in the last year. Having a few more vm out there would be for the best, specialy if they are already reliable alternatives like harmony.
Johann Sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:48:10 +0800
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
Hi,
As my understanding, if anyone (inlcuding students) want to use Harmony or
contribute to Harmony.
There is no limitation with the Apache license.
Correct me, if I am wrong.
Thanks!

way

Post by johann Sorel
(even if I'm not fan of it).

+1 for moving the project under public domain

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship (commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

Post by Tim Ellison
Please vote on the proposal to move Apache Harmony to the Apache

Attic.

Post by Tim Ellison
[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic
[ 0] Don't care
[-1] Don't move Harmony to the Attic.
The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
Thanks,
Tim

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4

Thanks
--Melan

--
http://about.me/clraychen
Regards,
Ray Chen

Alex Blewitt

2011-11-03 10:08:30 UTC

The PMC do not have the authority to release it as public domain as they do not own the code. It was donated by individuals (such as myself) under the Apache license.

To get it released under a different license you would have to personally contact every contributor and ask them for permission individually. It is not up to the PMC.

To save you time in wasting hours tracking down every contributor I hereby do not agree to release my contributions under anything but the Apache License that it is under currently. Therefore it is impossible for Apache Harmony in its entirety under public domain without removal of my contributions.

Please take time to understand how copyright and licensing interact and stop making requests which are impossible for the PMC to grant, whether the project is active or archived.

Alex

Sent from my iPhone 4S

way

Post by johann Sorel
(even if I'm not fan of it).

+1 for moving the project under public domain

Post by johann Sorel
http://harmony.markmail.org/message/bzifm5jshpviyyzz?q=public+domain
This will allow other project with bsd-like, mit, ...etc... licenses to
reuse parts of harmony more easely. Don't let all this work go to
waste.
See it as a gift to the community :) .
johann sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship
(commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

Post by Tim Ellison
Please vote on the proposal to move Apache Harmony to the Apache

Attic.

Post by Tim Ellison
[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic
[ 0] Don't care
[-1] Don't move Harmony to the Attic.
The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
Thanks,
Tim

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4

Thanks
--Melan

--
http://about.me/clraychen
Regards,
Ray Chen

Niclas Hedhman

2011-11-04 00:38:11 UTC

Well, true that your contribution can not be released into the PD
without your permission, however someone (incl ASF) can release it
under another license, a.k.a sublicense. ALv2 allows this (paragraph
2).

Post by Alex Blewitt
The PMC do not have the authority to release it as public domain as they do not own the code. It was donated by individuals (such as myself) under the Apache license.
To get it released under a different license you would have to personally contact every contributor and ask them for permission individually. It is not up to the PMC.
To save you time in wasting hours tracking down every contributor I hereby do not agree to release my contributions under anything but the Apache License that it is under currently. Therefore it is impossible for Apache Harmony in its entirety under public domain without removal of my contributions.
Please take time to understand how copyright and licensing interact and stop making requests which are impossible for the PMC to grant, whether the project is active or archived.
Alex
Sent from my iPhone 4S

way

Post by johann Sorel
(even if I'm not fan of it).

+1 for moving the project under public domain

Post by johann Sorel
http://harmony.markmail.org/message/bzifm5jshpviyyzz?q=public+domain
This will allow other project with bsd-like, mit, ...etc... licenses to
reuse parts of harmony more easely. Don't let all this work go to
waste.
See it as a gift to the community :) .
johann sorel

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 17:54:28 +0400
Subject: Re: [Vote] Move Apache Harmony to the Attic
+1
Sadly, but indeed there are no activity in the project for months...

Post by Alex Blewitt
+1
Sorry to see it go but with the history and lack of sponsorship
(commercial
or otherwise), the project has probably drawn to a close.

Post by Tim Ellison
Please vote on the proposal to move Apache Harmony to the Apache

Attic.

Post by Tim Ellison
[+1] Move Harmony to the Attic
[ 0] Don't care
[-1] Don't move Harmony to the Attic.
The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
Thanks,
Tim

____________________________________________________________
Publish your photos in seconds for FREE
TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if4

Thanks
--Melan

--
http://about.me/clraychen
Regards,
Ray Chen

Tim Ellison

2011-11-03 10:30:24 UTC

Post by johann Sorel
You are right, if they want they can use it with this license but
still it's a source of problems. we have plenty of different licenses
out there, MIT, BSD, GPL ... and some more license we surely be
created in the futur, mixing them is not always fun. All of them are
not fully compatible. Legal problems are something really dirty when
you encounter them, noone working on open-source projects want to
have such problems.
The apache license is ~more or less~ fine today (everyone has it's
own preference), but might become a problem later. To avoid those
problems the change can only be done now while the PMC is still
here.

There are no rights granted explicitly to the PMC itself, so it is not
true that anything is 'lost' in this regard when the PMC is disbanded.

Post by johann Sorel
Setting it in public domain can also make it revive, forks can start
much more easely from it. Several JVM have ~dyed~ (or are in lawsuit
like google dalvik, android) in the last year. Having a few more vm
out there would be for the best, specialy if they are already
reliable alternatives like harmony.

Contributions to the Harmony project are all made under the ICLA [1]
which grants licenses to the Foundation and to recipients of the code we
distribute.

While Apache owns the collective work of a release, the original author
retains ownership of their individual contributions. Therefore Apache
can only operate within the terms of the license granted.

Even if we wanted to - the gift is not ours to give.

[1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt

Regards,
Tim

Tim Ellison

2011-11-03 11:36:37 UTC

Tim Ellison

2011-11-03 11:39:37 UTC

I count 18 people voting +1 and two people voting -1 -- so the vote passes.

I will begin the process of moving Harmony to the Attic.

Thank you to everyone who voted.

p.s. In case you are checking, I included Gregory's +1 and Da Feng's -1
vote even though they were on the discussion thread rather than this
voting thread.

Regards,
Tim

Tim Ellison

2011-11-03 12:02:23 UTC

I see two more votes in the mail archives than I got in my reader for
some reason.

So, although the result is no different, let me update the numbers:

+1 from Alex, Catherine, Charles, Christian, Danese, enh, Gregory, Ilya,
Jesse, Jimmy, Karl, Mark, Mikhail, Nathan, Niclas, Oliver, Prashanth,
Ray, Regis and Tim (count = 20)

-1 from Da Feng, liou (count = 2)

Post by Tim Ellison
I count 18 people voting +1 and two people voting -1 -- so the vote passes.
I will begin the process of moving Harmony to the Attic.
Thank you to everyone who voted.
p.s. In case you are checking, I included Gregory's +1 and Da Feng's -1
vote even though they were on the discussion thread rather than this
voting thread.
Regards,
Tim

johann Sorel

2011-11-03 11:42:16 UTC